Meeting Summary:
The Encrypt the Mempool call number 3 focused on technical discussions about encrypted Mempool designs, particularly around Lucid and same-slot decryption mechanisms. Participants discussed concerns about execution quality, censorship resistance, and the potential for wide sandwiches in MEV attacks. The group explored options for implementing same-slot decryption outside of protocol while maintaining security, with Murat proposing a keeper payment mechanism to address execution quality issues. Key technical points included the distinction between exogenous and autogenous MEV, the role of commitments versus encryption, and the need for clear lines between Fossil, Lucid, and EPBS responsibilities. The discussion also touched on the importance of testnet development and getting core developer buy-in for the proposed changes.
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The meeting focused on discussing Encrypted Mempools, with Anthony presenting insights from a recent business and marketing-focused discussion. Key barriers identified included concerns about execution quality, technical implementation difficulties, and competition from private mempools. The group discussed potential priorities, including improving execution quality, focusing on live implementations like Prime EV, creating an MEV simulator, and developing SDKs for wallet integration. Justin raised a question about how Lucid handles gas pricing concerns, to which Anders was expected to provide input but did not respond in the provided transcript segment.
The group discussed the functionality and concerns of priority gas auctions and Lucid, focusing on top-of-block fees, transaction ordering, and the potential for exogenous vs. endogenous MEB extraction. Anders explained the design’s aim to prevent exogenous MEB extraction while enabling decentralized book building through transaction bundles. The team also explored the implications of encrypted frame transactions and builders not executing transactions, with concerns raised about block space waste and the ability to background blocks. Gottfried suggested considering a 3-slot approach and questioned whether encryption is necessary, proposing to treat it as a network optimization rather than a core Lucid feature.
Murat discussed a proposal for encrypted transactions and block builder optimization, highlighting issues with censorship resistance and execution quality in the current system. He explained that the proposal includes execution optimizations and introduces keeper payments for block builders. Anders confirmed that allowing sealed transactions to act as plain text in certain cases could be implemented, providing more flexibility for key publishers while maintaining security. The discussion clarified that only transactions without the correct key would be invalid, ensuring execution quality is preserved.
The team discussed a proposed commitment and key mechanism as an alternative to the current system, with Gottfried explaining that this approach would make keys optional while maintaining low latency on the hot path. Murat raised questions about censorship resistance properties, particularly regarding a builder’s ability to delay transaction inclusion, though the discussion became unclear due to technical audio issues. The team agreed to further examine the interaction between Fossil and Lucid components, with Anders sharing a relevant EIP reference, and Murat noted that updates were needed for EIP 8184 regarding slot N inclusion and decryptor key specification.
The team discussed recent updates to the Marine Welfare section and findings about wide sandwiches being difficult to detect, which led to a discussion about different types of price manipulation strategies. Murat and Gottfried explained that wide sandwiches involve general price manipulation rather than targeted attacks, and Murat suggested that encrypted Mempools could make these strategies riskier by reducing market information available to manipulators. The conversation concluded with a strategic review of priorities for an upcoming hard fork aimed at mitigating toxic MEV, though the specific priorities were not fully determined during the meeting.
The team discussed priorities for the I-Star project, with Murat suggesting a testnet as a tangible next step to move from research to implementation phase. Jannik proposed presenting multiple ideas including testnets and cleaner specs to core developers for feedback. The group also discussed execution quality issues and slot designs, with Murat proposing a tweak that would allow same-slot decryption key sending regardless of slot time. Anders clarified that the proposed design would move the scheme out of protocol, allowing builders to handle key publication and sealed transactions off-chain. Murat offered to create a landing page with visualizations to better communicate the concept to the community.
The team discussed encrypted frame transactions and threshold decryption research initiatives. Gottfried announced plans to conduct workshops on crypto research during an upcoming Euro trip to explore better solutions for protocol designers. The group also addressed client team participation, with Anthony suggesting the need to identify and engage missing client representatives, particularly for development and I-Star integration. Justin agreed to represent Besu and help recruit additional team members to support the project’s progress.
Next Steps:
- Justin: Post the link to the Business Marcoms meeting in the Telegram chat
- Gottfried: Write up more details about the commitment-based mechanism (optional encryption as transport mechanism)
- Justin: Write about the lines between Fossil and Lucid design responsibilities regarding censorship resistance
- Murat: Continue discussion about same slot decryption via chat due to audio issues
- Justin: Come up with an alternate term to distinguish wide sandwiches from targeted sandwiches
- Murat: Create a landing page that visualizes the same slot decryption concept for better evangelization across the community
- Gottfried: Hold workshops during Euro trip in the next two weeks to engage crypto researchers on threshold decryption needs
- Justin: Reach out to potential representatives from client teams to recruit them for participation in these calls
- Anthony: Follow up offline with Justin and others to get more client team representation into the discussions
Recording Access: